So I say give dialogue a try and if the wheels start to come off you can walk away. This is particularly significant in view of the fact there other murders of God’s messengers recorded in the Apocrypha, but the Lord excludes them suggesting He did not consider the books of the Apocrypha to belong in the Canon as with the books from Genesis to 2 Chronicles. KO, simply read the translations you quoted. Its founder, Marcion of Sinope (c. 85- c. 160), claimed that the God of the Old Testament was an evil God, and not the same as the good God of the New Testament. The Biblical Canon For as long as records have been maintained, the Bible remains the bestselling book worldwide, year after year (Jeynes, 2012). It would seem, from this historical fact alone, that if you wanted to know what this Church’s religion was, the best way to find out would be to ask the representatives of that Church. It’s no longer the case; it’s deliberate. In the course of the conflict, this unity broke apart when Luther concluded that the canons as interpreted by Roman officials conflicted with Scripture. (3) Was the book historically accurate? “The Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha were rejected as a result of not meeting this test. Ultimately, this shift from a common destination to a common point-of-departure matters for three reasons: First, because the Protestant model is ultimately unbiblical, untraditional, and unworkable. This is the question of the canon of Scripture, which may be defined as follows: The canon of Scripture is the list of all the books that belong in the Bible. Yet, this article would make it seem otherwise, and that in fact, purgatory must be some sort of essential doctrine. I think Joe cannot say this is the reason that every Protestant rejects the Deuterocanon, as the reasons are mainly historical. Before the Reformation, major figures had indicated the ecclesial plurality of interpreters…When Vatican II speaks of the church having an ‘ultimate judgment’ (DV 12) it clearly eschews a monopolistic claim that the magisterium is the sole organ of interpretation, which is confirmed both by the century-old official promotion of Catholic biblical studies and the recognition in DV 12 of the role of exegesis in the maturing of magisterial teaching” (ApC 407). But this is 3 spirits in one soul which is demonic. Although these reasons are important, I do not think they are sufficient. This comes from the Greek word kanon, meaning reed or measurement. (John 1 KJVi) We must not underestimate the importance of this question. In doing this he acted very well and honorably, taking account of the resurrection. It is important for Protestants that the canon doesn’t include the full 73 books of the Catholic Bible. Nevertheless, let not my will, but yours take place (Luke 22). Rev Dark Hans – CK, you present an interesting question by flipping it around to excommunication in the Lutheran church. It doesn’t matter what you believe he is, what you believe his followers preached; it doesn’t matter what you practice. The trinity is therefore a ‘Brainwashometer’. 43 And when he had made a gathering throughout the company to the sum of two thousand drachms of silver, he sent it to Jerusalem to offer a sin offering, doing therein very well and honestly, in that he was mindful of the resurrection: http://www.ellopos.net/elpenor/greek-texts/septuagint/chapter.asp?book=22&page=12, ποιησάμενός τε κατ᾿ ἀνδραλογίαν κατασκευάσματα εἰς ἀργυρίου δραχμὰς δισχιλίας, ἀπέστειλεν εἰς ῾Ιεροσόλυμα προσαγαγεῖν περὶ ἁμαρτίας θυσίαν, πάνυ καλῶς καὶ ἀστείως πράττων ὑπὲρ ἀναστάσεως διαλογιζόμενος. Just let that last paragraph sink in for a few minutes. Compare Deuteronomy 18:18; 31:24-26; 1 Samuel 10:25; Nehemiah 8:3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peshitta. (c) Minute statistics were also kept as a further means of guarding against errors: in the Hebrew Bible at Leviticus 8:8, the margin has a reference that this verse is the middle verse of the Torah. Anyway, the text says that his actions (prayer + sacrifices) were not just good, they were a “holy and pious thought”, he was acting “very well”, “honorably”, “nobly”. This was one of Sir Isaac Newton’s anti trinity arguments. KJV(i) 43 And when he had made a gathering throughout the company to the sum of two thousand drachms of silver, he sent it to Jerusalem to offer a sin offering, doing therein very well and honestly, in that he was mindful of the resurrection: Geneva(i) 43 And hauing made a gathering through the company, sent to Ierusalem about two thousande drachmes of siluer, to offer a sinne offering, doing very well, and honestly that he thought of the resurrection. I bought myself a Douay-Rheims and an RSV, but I’m not really happy with either one. Even the one truth they could possibly agree with, since they’re protestants after all, is sola scriptura, but even then it cannot be proved from the Bible, nor from the Church Fathers, though that is the dream of many Protestant apologists. I pray my brothers and sisters in Christ would also show such charity. Discussions such as the canon are evaded with bogus claims about Jamnia, about the reformers’ “inspiration”, about the self-manifest lies contained in those books (see Calvin’s view quoted by Joe above). is canonical or not, because it doesn’t support the doctrines Catholics say it supports, anyway. But several things began to happen that promoted the formation of the New Testament canon. Roman Catholics have a total of eighty books because they recognize the Apocrypha as semicanonical. 4:15). All other doctrines, without explicit sanction, lack the same degree of certainty. The English word canon comes from the Greek κανών, meaning "rule" or "measuring stick".Christians were the first to use the term in reference to scripture, but Eugene Ulrich regards the notion as Jewish. 28 You heard that I said to you, I am going away and I am coming [back] to you. 2. Josh. In Matthew 23:35, Jesus said, “that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.” The murder Jesus spoke of is recorded in 2 Chronicles 24:20-22. Three issues were important here: (a) Was the author an apostle or did he have the endorsement of an apostle? What is heresy in such an intelectual (or anti-intelectual) environment? This contrast is startling and tremendously significant. For almost twenty years after the ascension of Christ none of the books of the New Testament were even written and about sixty-five years elapsed before the last New Testament book was written. Because Scripture is from God Himself and because there is no authority higher than the Lord, the final reason why the church received the canon it did was due to its hearing the voice of God in the pages of the received books. The original copies of the Old Testament were written on leather or papyrus from the time of Moses (c. 1450 B.C.) The word canon is of Greek origin and means “measuring rod.” We use the phrase Canon of Scripture to describe the compilation of books in the Bible as the standard by which all truth is measured. “There was human recognition of the writings; normally this was immediate as the people recognized the writers as spokesmen from God. No one corrupts a text to fit a doctrine that they do not have. The Scripture explicitly calls the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit God. 1 Do not let your hearts be troubled. I always enjoy your articles. Just as Melchizedek was a different person to God. With the Protestant Reformation, the picture that I painted above is turned upon its head. There have been great strides towards understanding and unity with our churches in the last 40 years, and I like to point out this understanding and growing unity. I don’t think about truth. But they also recognized that other writings of the New Testament were Scripture and on a par with the Old Testament. The Sinaiticus, the VaticanB and the Syriac Peshitta have only begotten God. Similarly, succeeding prophets were received upon due authentication, and their written works were received with the same respect, being received therefore as the Word of God. Marcion, for example, rejected the Old Testament and New Testament writings apart from the Pauline letters (he altered Luke’s gospel to suit his doctrine). 3. Required fields are marked *. So God and Jesus have separate possessions. 3:16). I think Joe cannot say this is the reason that every Protestant rejects the Deuterocanon, as the reasons are mainly historical. So God is good and Jesus is not, so they are different people with different characters and different levels of righteousness. Craig, I’ll wait for my response to be approved, I guess it was too long/too many links. It has already been intimated that there is a smaller, or incomplete, and a larger, or complete, Old Testament. 36 Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father (Matthew 24). Col. 4:16; 1 Thess. http://aleteia.org/2016/03/18/former-lutheran-pastor-why-i-am-becoming-catholic/. The issue of reception is for me far more important than the other criteria (largely because the others cannot be falsified). Their canonicity was inherent within them, since they came from God. Just how reliable are the New Testament documents? Rejection by the Jewish Community. 20:1; Josh. http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=pa%2Fnu&la=greek. http://www.vatican.va/archive/bible/nova_vulgata/documents/nova-vulgata_vt_ii-maccabaeorum_lt.html#12, (Note the addition of “valde” (very much) for πάνυ which was missing in the translation you gave, and see the still missing translation for πράττων.). John’s Gospel – indeed, the entire Bible – was never meant to be an exhaustive account of everything that Jesus said or did. Personally I feel this ‘via media’ is superior to the approach of those reformed Churches which do not allow their members theological freedom but rather impose on them a ‘Confession’ to which they must adhere or be expelled. All Old Testament books are quoted except Esther, Ecclesiastes, and the Song of Solomon. It is not within Christian charity to trash others (especially people I have never met in person), so I will refrain. And how can you be certain if you are not 100% certain you have a complete bible? ” 2 Macc 12 explicitly does not endorse anything other than Maccebeus’ prayer being good”. My favorite translation has been the KJV for many years, and giving up the comfort of familiar words and phrasing has been very difficult. Instead, they go straight to the heart of the problem (the heresy that the God who created the world is different from the God who redeemed it), without focusing very much on the incomplete canon (which was, after all, merely a symptom of the underlying heresy). Indeed, the Masoretes (traditionalists) who between A.D 600 and 950 added accents and vowel points and in general standardized the Hebrew text, devised complicated safeguards for the making of copies (as described above) … When the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered, they gave us a Hebrew text from the second to first century B.C. “how Scripture, not a bishopric or a live in [sic] tradition, is the safeguard against false prophets.” If it were so, why have so many false prophets arisen from among the sola scriptura Christians, and none that I know of among traditional Christians? “A name on the church door won’t save you”, that’s what they say about “denominations”. It only means that the only doctrines we can be certain of are revealed in the Scripture.” “what doctrines are certain if you exclude oral Tradition and some kind of authority to help us be certain?”. So God and Jesus have two different wills. We are compelled to consider, however, why the Old Testament is the rule of faith, and whether in truth it possesses the authority which the Church has traditionally ascribed to it. A canonical book is one that measures up to the standard of Holy Scripture. Note also Joshua 6:26 compared with 1 Kings 16:34; Joshua 24:29-33 compared with Judges 2:8-9; 2 Chronicles 36:22-23 compared with Ezra 1:1-4; Daniel 9:2 compared with Jeremiah 25:11-12. There are some here (Maybe one?) You say–“So, according to almost all translations from the Greek, well/fine + honestly/nobly refer to the action [of the sacrifice].”. 2:1; (b) that the books were authoritative—Joshua 1:7-8; 23:6; 1 Kings 2:3; 2 Kings 14:6; 21:8; 23:25; Ezra 6:18; Nehemiah 13:1; Daniel 9:11; Malachi 4:4. Happy New Year: Past, Present, and Future Perspectives, Bibliology - The Doctrine of the Written Word, The Former Prophets (originally 4 books, then 6)—Joshua, Judges, Samuel (1 & 2), Kings (1 & 2), The Latter Prophets (originally 4 books, then 15), Poetical (3 books) —Psalms, Proverbs, Job, The Rolls (5 books) —Song of Solomon, Ruth, Lamentations, Ecclesiastes, Esther, Historical (originally 3 books, then 5) —Daniel, Ezra-Nehemiah (2), Chronicles (1 & 2). It’s the name of the game in your town for the last 500 years. They make my point. (John 1 GLT) And such was the case. But they don’t. If God has revealed Himself to humanity in written form, then it is of supreme importance to know exactly which writings come from Him; for His words are the words of life. 4. http://www.katapi.org.uk/katapiNSBunix/Lxx/LxxByKFmTo.php?&KFm=112012038.00&KTo=112012045.00, πάνυ – altogether F. F. Bruce, The Canon of Scripture (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1988), 117-269. As you might imagine, Marcionites threw out the entire Old Testament. There are many Protestant apologetics saying that “The Apocrypha inculcates doctrines at variance with the Bible, such as prayers for the dead”. ὑπὲρ ἀναστάσεως (resurrection) διαλογιζόμενος (thinking/considering/taking into account). “an action fine and noble”, “doing therein very well” etc etc. 8:1; Ezek. 18 Qeo.n ouvdei.j e`w,raken pw,pote\ o` monogenh.j ui`o,j( o` w’n eivj to.n ko,lpon tou/ patro,j( evkei/noj evxhgh,satoÅ (John 1 BYZ) Nothing within the model seems capable of overcoming the dual “bugs” of heresy and schism. Every metaphysical doctrine lacks any degree of certainty. This study discusses the tests of canonicity that were used, the history of canonization and a brief explanation of why certain disputed books are not scripture. The previous chapter concluded that it is especially the written words of God in the Bible to which we are to give our attention. 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